Possession (advantage)

Cost: 100 points

Possession is an exotic mental advantage where you can move your consciousness from body to body with the built-in limitation that you cannot survive outside a living host

duration

The ability in it's natural state appears to have indefinite effects.

Modifiers like Costs Fatigue raise the question as to whether possession works like a transient ability (such as Innate Attack) where you pay it once and then can reside in your new body indefinitely, or if it's a "cost per minute".

H98's Dybbuk takes the Extended Duration enhancement atop of Costs Fatigue, implying it may be the latter.

Another possibility is that this increases the 1d seconds of mental stun suffered by a previous host, but that isn't a particularly economic investment. Another possible application of ED might be the duration of time once can go without suffering IQ penalties when recalling a memory of the new host.

immunity

New Approach means any immunities that happen due to past failures cease to apply once this is removed via the Decreased Immunity enhancement

mental v physical and traits vs abilities

B75 initially makes the distinction between TRAITS (advantages and disadvantages) as classified by icons on B32

You gain your new host’s ST, DX, and HT (and secondary characteristics calculated from these scores), as well as his physical advantages and

disadvantages. You keep your own IQ, Perception, and Will, and all of your mental traits.

P175 changed this in a subtle way which is easy to overlook:

the benefits of his puppet’s physical abilities and his own mental ones, but his host’s mental abilities and his own physical ones are inaccessible

This is important to note because of Powers' new distinction between traits and abilities, which are explained on P154 and P235/236 glossary.

Although "based on a physical advantage" creates physical abilities and "based on a mental advantage" creates mental abilities, PA/MA are also created by the requirement of a ST/DX/HT or IQ/Will/Per roll.

The glossary might imply to some this creates a "dual ability" (simultaneously mental and physical) which P154 acknowledges by mentioning how this can "blur the distinction".

P154 has a "regardless of the underlying trait .. unless the GM specifies otherwise" however this is merely an opt-in. There is no opt-out language which gives mutual exclusivity, though it is perhaps IMPLIED.

Policy is simpler to deal with for possession if it is JUST one or the other. For example, P175 allows you to benefit from "physical abilities" of a host, but "mental abilities" are inaccessible: so it's unclear whether a "simultaneously mental and physical" (SMAP, or perhaps SPAM for simultaneously physical and mental) ability (for example: Doesn't Breathe w/ Requires IQ roll) would be usable by a possessing force.

Similarly if you had this yourself, due to your own physical abilities being "inaccessible" yet you should be able to enjoy "benefits" of mental abilities, it's unclear if you should or shouldn't be able to 'bring along' something like IQ-based Doesn't Breathe.

If there is no mutual exclusivity (simultaneous exists) this would seem to imply that NOBODY can use these traits during a body swap, you'd need to have your own mind in your own body to use them!

If there IS mutual exclusivity (simultaneous cannot exist) then since we know "requires (mental) roll" creates a mental ability, this means it declassifies it as a physical ability. Vice versa also: a "requires (physical) roll" mental trait creates a physical ability, which declassifies it as a mental ability.

Where confusion might result is if TWO attributes are rolled against. For example there is nothing at all preventing you from taking "requires HT roll" on Healing. This is different from Different (Attribute) Roll enhancement (replacing IQ with HT) because the HT roll would be IN ADDITION to the IQ roll.

That could result in rolling against TWO attributes (mental and physical) meaning there would be no clear indicator of which type of ability it is.

This would mean needing various solutions, such as:

• assume in this case (perhaps ONLY this case) that it CAN be a 'simultaneous' SMAP/SPAM ability
• use the original advantage's classification as the tiebreaker (original attribute is more important than added one)
• just specify one when defining the ability as a 0-point feature
• do not allow "tied" even numbers of mental/phys rolls, always require an "odd number" (not tied) where the greater number defines the trait. So for example "requires iq, will and HT" is mental (2>1) while "requires iq, HT and DX" is physical (1<2)

Special Enhancements

• Assimilation (+10%)
• Chronic (+20)
• Full Memory Access (+10%)
• Mind Swap (+10)
• Telecontrol (+50%)
• Telecontrol 2 (+100): "As Telecontrol, but your body remains conscious and able to act."

Special Limitations

• Digital (-40%)
• Mindlink Required (-40%)
• No Memory Access (-10%)
• Parasitic (-60%)
• Puppet Only (-30%)
• Specialized (-40%)
• Spiritual (-20%)
• Poor Control (8 hours: -5% for -1; -10% for -2; -15% for -4; and -20% for -8; 40 hours: 2x; No negation: 3x)

Power limitations

• Magical (-10%)
• Telepathic (-10%)
• an -40
• Only victims of possession -30
• Only while possessing human -40

Mitigators for disadvantages

• only in cloud form is a -10% mitigator for Mute
• only outside host is a -10% mitigator for Weakness
• Only affects host’s HP shifts the HP loss from Draining from a parasite or spirit to the body it's controlling

Modified limitations

• Temporary Disadvantages on Possession per H72's Wendigo applies certain aesthetic things like Bad Smell and Supernatural Features to the inhabited body rather than the ride-along spiritual body, which is hidden from view/spell
  • Temporary Disadvantage: Vulnerability also works differently: since "hot fat" does not normally burn insubstantial bodies, the usual 100%+300%=400% math does not apply creating quadruple damage as listed
    • "extra damage from the Vulnerability is applied to the spirit; the host takes only normal boiling-fat damage" means the Vulnerability doesn't apply at all to the host body: but the "extra damage" (the +300%) is basically 0%+300%=300% (triple the "normal boiling fat damage", whatever that is) being suffered by the carry-along spiritual body
      • "must pour boiling fat down his throat" means that simply throwing boiling fat at a possessed body shouldn't harm the spirit because standard "cover DR" type stuff would apply for Parasitic/Spiritual: this is like swallowing a grenade which allows it to ignore such "cover DR" much like "sword swallowing" with a "Spirit Blade" could stab a ghost without needing to penetrate torso body armor

Alternatives

• Mind Control
• Dominance

Basic and Powers on Maneuverse

B75:

"you must concentrate for one second and physically touch him"

Since it is "and" instead of "then", sequence initially does not appear to matter.

P164:

few “touch only” abilities, such as Possession, require a Concentrate maneuver before an attack is possible.

This phrasing could lead to some confusion, thinking "attack" might refer to an "Attack" maneuver or an "attack" component of various Attack maneuvers (Attack, Defensive Attack, etc) which you get a bonus of via Extra Attack and so on.

In this case "attack" probably means in the sense of "like an Innate Attack modified with Malediction" ie an attack which is launched by a Concentrate maneuver, like several magic spells basically are.

Probably not in the sense of how melee spells work: where you do a concentrate prior to touching someone and then it goes off once you make contact. Instead, it seems like contact should be established before rolling a concentrate.

This might mean that Possession works similarly to how Neutralize or Leech does: requiring sustained contact (best guaranteed via a grapple) to prevent contact from ceasing as one does a Concentrate maneuver.

Although it is possible to do physical gestures while concentrating (this is required for standard spellcasting) there's no indication you get a "roll to hit" to establish touch where it isn't already present.

So to do a "touch spell" on a Regular Spell for example, touch would already need to have happened, and then just maintained during the Concentrates for casting. It can't normally be initiated during concentrates, with some exceptions:

• the opponent decides to touch/grapple YOU
• you can take an Attack maneuver while concentrating on a spell because of Compartmentalized Mind
• you did a Hand Catch or Grabbing Parry and this didn't break your concentration: you got a free attack despite the Concentrate!
  • not an option for standard parries, which don't establish grapples

Interestingly: standard parries (or being parried) CAN set up a Beat implying you can maintain some contact from a parry into a following turn.

Like Vampiric Bite or Leech probably the simplest way to guarantee that is first establishing a grapple before using the Concentrate maneuver. That way no extra attack is needed to create touch (it is pre-existing)

Without a pre-existing grapple, it might actually be necessary to have Compartmentalized Mind to be able to do an attack and a concentrate in the same second.

If it is possible to do a concentrate 1 second to set up an attack for the next, then the question would be raised "for how many consecutive seconds can I not be taking concentrate maneuvers and still have an active possession attack?"

bonus precedents of the Fantasy Wendigo

GURPS Fantasy 52 gives the Wendigo a bonus to it's IQ rolls to possess:

• +2 if concentrating 1 minute
• +4 if concentrating for one hour (60x as long). No enhancements appear to reflect this.

normally if Time Spent bonuses were used (B346), it would be 4x as long to get a +2 and 15x as long to get a +4

• the first would imply the base activation time to be 15 seconds
• the second would imply the base activation time to be 4 minutes

Mechanically the way to add this legally would be to use Alternative Enhancements with two forms of Limited Enhancements. The first is Reliable+2 (+10%) with Immediate Preparation Required:1min -30% reducing it to +7%. The second is Reliable+4 (+20%) with IPR:1hr -75% reducing it to +5%. Then the cheaper ability (the 2nd) is reduced to 1/5 cost (+1%) and added to the former: a total of +8%.

prep precedents of the Fantasy Wendigo

The above times are pretty small compared to the baseline time on F53, only leading to 8h1m or 9h instead of 8h0m1s it seems.

Preparation Required, 8 hours, -30%

This need not be IMMEDIATE prep required (for that, 8 hours is -90% per PU8p14) so the Wendigo could prep it will in advance. The downside of Prep-Required abilities is only ONE ability with that limitation can be prepped, but Wendigos only have one such ability.

F52 however:

begins with hearing its voice in the howling of the arctic winds. After eight hours, it engages

"Sense-Based, Hearing, -20%;" is taken on Possession here. This is from B109 intended for Maledictions "or when added to an ability that already ignores DR (e.g., Mind Control or Mind Reading),"

This implies that actually hearing the voice happens BEFORE the 8 hours of prep, rather than after.

This helps with interpreting how things like Preparation Required or Takes Extra Time or Immediate Preparation Required are meant to work, in terms of accessibility or limitations.

Apparently if there is a limitation, it applies not just to the moment of attack, but also to any required preparation time.

Since this is PR and not IPR, this means the Wendigo needs to be heard for 8 continuous hours (taking concentrate manevers the entire time) to establish the prep. Then it is not forced to "use it or lose it" (like with IPR) but can hold onto it and initiate it whenever it wants to, later on.

This might apply to ANY TARGET who heard it during that prep, as there is no specification that the Wendigo needs to single out the target until actually initiating the ability though.

range precedents of the Fantasy Wendigo

The wendigo's Possession does not have the Ranged+40% enhancement meaning it still requires "touch". This means the spirit actually has to remain in "physical contact" the entire time.

How difficult that is is difficult to ascertain, as the insubstantial form of the wendigo is never actually defined here. B95 describes UK3:

use the points to buy a spirit or undead racial template (if such things exist in the setting), becoming a ghost,

revenant, etc. once you heal all your HP.

The Wendigo's UK3 is worth 102 points due to limitations. These limitations should RAW create problems for Wendigo as described, except it has special rules

• "Trigger: Only manifests physically after new host kills another human and eats his flesh, -12%)"
  • Trigger is normally worth 25/15/5 % ... 12 is notable HALF of 25 (rare)
    • B151 defines "human flesh" as "Common" (15% for UK's trigger) under Restricted Diet.
      • -3 from 15 is 1/5 or -20%.
  • most likely the pricing is just some formula of "ritual" (eating a sentient) and "substance" (human flesh).

The way trigger normally operates under B95:

"require some substance (such as human blood) or condition (such as a ritual) before you will start to heal. Until then, you will remain dormant"

The "remain dormant" caveat is an extension of "automatically fall unconscious" or "you fall unconscious" for UK2/UK3. The guaranteed end of these states is "regain consciousness once you have positive HP" for UK2.

There is no guaranteed end of UK3 so it would follow standard rules found on B423's Recovering from Unconsciousness:

• "1 or more HP" which would be achieved by the "full HP" tier where "fully intact body will coalesce" is automatic in 15 minutes
• "0 HP or worse" which is an hourly HT roll (success would still mean being at 1/2 Move though). Since
• "-1xHP or below" is a HT roll after 12 hours: failure means no consciousness without medical treatment
  • the usual "roll vs. HT every 12 hours; if you fail, you die." probably does not apply due to UK1's benefit
  • presumably if regeneration or natural healing take someone above -1xHP they get a chance for the hourly rolls, just not until healing gets them there

"only manifests physically" is different from "only heals" though. That is more like limiting the condition which happens at full HP, rather than limiting how HP is regained. This is probably while this is a "limited trigger". It would effectively be a Reciprocal Enhancement of Not Trigger where only the last aspect of healing (physical manifestation for UK3) is held off.

As such, the Wendigo may be held in a "mental entity only" limbo. "Unkillable Spirit Form" need not refer to Spirit Form which doesn't even exist in 4e. It could possibly mean the Spirit template but that's worth 163 points which is more than UK3's value, so you can't just trade for it.

• P151 under Transmutations does have a "Spirit Form" template, but it's even more expensive at 260 points. It doesn't fit with concept since it's switchable, the implication with UK3 is that it'd be "always on" until fully healed.

Unkillable 2/3 recovery speed is normally based upon healing speed. This is usually still the case with a trigger (trigger just turns them from Unhealing to their usual healing). The Wendigo is an exception. Their trigger does not limit their healing: it just limits when manifestation at full HP happens. Consciousness recovers at the usual rate.

The problem though is that consciousness recovery is still influenced by HP %, determining whether it's a 1-time chance to recover after 12 hours, an hourly chance, or an automatic recovery.

So when are these thresholds met?

One might presumably based on the 30 ST provided by the template: giving 30 HP. So the 12-hour/1-hour threshold would be -30 in that case.

However it could make more sense to look at this as "ST+20" because of how the Resurrection limitation on Unkillable works:

"you wake up in an entirely new body with new abilities"

Given with Possession you actually gain the physical abilities of the host... something.

B68 Mind Control is something they also have while possessing, indicating it's possible to possess a body and optionally not fully suppress the mind.

Mental Control Points are probably perfect for the Wendigo. Especially in dealing with the situation that it might be hard to "stay in contact with" and "stay audible to" a body continuously for 8 hours.

• a looser interpretation might be that 8 hours is 480 minutes is 28,800 "in-contact AND in-earshot" concentrate maneuvers which a Windigo must "add up" to complete the preparation. So if it briefly broke contact with a body (or the body could not hear the spirit because of another loud noise) it wouldn't have to "start fresh".
• it might also be interpreted that Prep Required is only limited by extra accessibilities or sense-basedness, in which case constant touch wouldn't be needed during the prep time. It is not generally thought that someone with a prep-required Innate Attack needs to be touching their potential target the entire time they're prepping!
  • keeping in contact is still probably a good idea though: to stay in EARSHOT. Although the Wendigo has Penetrating Voice,

Keeping contact might be easy though per P55:

most such entities can “anchor” themselves to material objects as needed, allowing them to stand on floors, ride in vehicles, and so on

If anchoring like this also works on living beings (still material objects, just living animate ones), it would explain how insubstantial targets can "haunt" living beings. Even if they move about very slowly on their own, they could just use living beings as "mounts" (ie vehicles). This is probably initiated like a grapple except since you can't act on material foes (unless you had "Affects Substantial" on Enhancing ST-Based Abiliites) there is no DX penalty (or ST penalty if using Last Gasp) but you still establish a pseudo-grapple.

• most substantial beings could not "break free" unless they had Affects Insubstantial via Modifying ST-Based Abilities. As such, only other insubstantial creatures could try and break that grapple!
  • P159's Abilties and Exertion would probably apply here though: initiating the grapple would not only be 1 FP for combat, but +2 "for those who used abilities to affect the environment or someone else" for a total of 3 FP. Plus 1 FP her hour as suggested by Long-Term Use. Insubstantial characters who can diminish this should buy Reduced Fatigue, though it could be cheaper to buy an Energy Reserve.

Unlike FP, it does not require "rest" to regenerate, so "I'm using insubstantial anchoring to ride in a car" not being "restful" would not matter. There is probably some "free" version of this anyway to explain how insubstantial creatures don't just "fall off a planet" into the vacuum of space (gravity is free) or "fall into the center of a planet". It is perhaps also "free" to allow a surface to repel you yet somehow avoid fall damage. "repelled by default" may be the case, in which case it would take 1 FP per hour to NOT be repelled by a series of things (example: walking through walls constantly for 1 hour).

It might be that EITHER could be an approach depending on what you declare as the "default". This would make some creatures good at walking through walls (no FP cost) but bad at NOT falling through the ground (FP cost). That might explain how some ghosts "fall into hell" unless making ongoing efforts (1 FP per hour) NOT to fall.

However such ghosts could of course "ascend" via their Full Move upward in pseudo-flight unless they had No Vertical Move, in which case they would have to use Jumping or Climbing in interaction with the matter of the earth to regain lost altitude in a previous "fall into Earth's Center" descent.

This would basically require ghosts to constantly get FP somehow (unless buying Reduced Fatigue on Insub) either via an ER that regenerates itself (1/hour is a limitation that would perfectly offset it). or special recharge w/ Leech.

B396 Mounted Combat should also apply, except it is not possible to "control a mount" physically. 2 maneuvers are used: Move to jump/climb then Change Posture to seat. In Technical Grappling however, Sit on Him is used, which is a Pass Limb performed after a Grappling Using Legs. "Riding" (ie hands free) would otherwise not be possible, requiring an insubstantial entity to dedicate its arms to maintaining that grapple to "keep anchored".

• note however that due to being SM+3, a WEndigo would count as B555 Exposed Rider or Exposed Cabin when "hitching a ride", B554 has these as rolling 9 or 11 on a random hit location for a vehicle.

B396's requirement to make DX rolls to avoid falling after a mount does a difficult action may not apply to insubstantial creatures since there isn't actually any transfer of physical momentum from mount to rider. It can't Break Free but perhaps might buck him off? B396 is a precursor to TG's Bucking Bronco rules which reduce CP based on the ST of the bucker though, and ST should not matter here since there is no actual force transfer.

• much like there is a Brute Parry which is ST-based instead of DX-based, there ought to be a way to roll Control Points based purely on DX (or maybe something like HT or INT) rather than ST, when ST doesn't make sense.

There is no Riding roll for Spooked Mounts either: the insubstantial grappler cannot use DX-based skills to move their mount. Mount Loss of Control does not apply, you can't be "thrown".

• Cavalry Weapons and Using Ranged Weapons While Mounted is where it WOULD apply though. This is where the Riding skill WOULD make sense. "The rider’s attack is at an extra -2 if the mount attacked on its last turn." on B397 in particular
  • B397-B397 Mounted Defense is also tricky. without "riding 12", there are progressive active defense penalties.
  • B217 requires specialization. To go above the DX-5 default would require putting a point in Riding (Human). There is a -10 penalty to ride humans since they haven't been trained for riding: a human would need the Mount skill to avoid the penalty (and get at least +1 bonus) and presumably would need to be able to perceive the spirit to coordinate with it (like See Invisible)

B398 Multiple Riders could be relevant, distinguishes between a "controlling rider" and "passenger". Passengers use the lower of ST and the controlling riders skill (which is -1 for having a passenger) to avoid falling off, which suffers a -3 penalty. That is "a Riding roll at -4" under Mounted Combat Results.

An insubstantial "anchorer" would probably always qualify as a "passenger" and never a "controlling rider". In the case of there being no actual controlling rider, maybe the horse counts as riding itself? B210 can be used at default, the minimum +1 only applies with points in it.

• Mount can be used to thow unwelcome riders, but to unwelcome a rider you'd probably have to be AWARE of it. Humans are probably as aware of an anchored ghost as they are of an anchored ant. You don't try to buck what you can't see, and ants seem to cling on pretty well regardless. Clinging is for walls (inanimate) not grappling animate foes, but if it works for a moving wall then a human pantleg is probably like a movnig wall to an ant.
  • "make a DX roll to touch the surface, and then make a ST roll at -1 per 5 yards already fallen" is probably how ants keep on even if there's some built-in bucking bronco to movements like running.

B349 only requires a DX roll every 5 minutes for Climbing. There is also a "secured yourself with a rope" option. This could be represted with Binding but perhaps in a 1-way fashion, only to keep them grappled so you're tethered, not to DX penalty them.

• or just a perk of having a rope gadget but those can be destroyed

B350's Digging might be perceived as representing how insubstantial creatures claw their way into clutching deeper parts of substantial creatures and anchoring to them.

Body Sense could represent trying to orient your insubstantial body in perfect alignment with your host so that your insub body can actually breathe. Without ghost air or doesn't breathe an insubstantial body anchored to a host would suffocate unless the "ghost mouth" was aligned with the "host mouth"!

• a series of grapples could also represent this process: hands grapple hands, feet grapple feet, etc. Think of Peter Pan stitching on his shadow.
  • unless this is done, the insubstantial body would be dangling in a clumsy fashion from the host body from however it set up the grapple! It would be very visible, easy to target, if not "in sync" with the host vehicle.

Using TG26, an "Unbrute Bronco" might just calculate "Trained DX" where instead of "Physical Control Points" it is "Physical Mirroring Points". Like for example if someone was trying to mime you, you could outsmart the mime by moving in wild unpredictable ways. This is what you would need to do if all that mattered was actually how fast your libms were moving and not how strong your limbs are, for a Unbrute Break Free to use something other than ST as the basis for"damage" to a grapple.

• on the flip side, the ST of the entity probably wouldn't matter either? A high-ST insubstantial guy isn't necessarily any better at balancing atop a moving train than a low-ST insubstantial guy. Both could plausibly fall from the train though... but should the high ST guy be better at grabbing onto the train? Supporting his own weight as per a climber?

What is an interesting case is when the mount isn't even trying to knock off a rider on MCR:

A rider who suffers any knockback is automatically knocked off unless he has a saddle and stirrups, in which case he

gets a Riding roll at -4 per yard of knockback to stay on.

It's a strange rule, because a handhold (on a mane, or reigns) should be able to prevent someone falling off, not just saddle/stirrups. It's too much emphasis on leg grappling. Also saddle/stirrups should not be "all or nothing", stirrups should just aid grip CP but it should still be possible to hang on with feet/legs alone, just maybe in a way that hurts a mount.

Vehicle combat rules might make more sense,

limitations on advantage

GURPS Fantasy 53 "Only in Unkillable Spirit Form". Very confusing how to apply that, probably implies a slain wendigo converts into a spirit template rather than rebuilding a physical body.

limitations influence by advantage

• only victims of possession -30
  • only on possessed form -40
  • only on possessed human -40
• only Blood Relatives -30
• only while possessing human
• Specialized, Own race -40

quotes

Kromm

2011 http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=79556 re Extended Duration "It means that the time-dependent effects are slanted in your favor: your last victim suffers 3d seconds of mental stun instead of 1d when you leave or are kicked out."

Normally it is the USER (not the victim) who suffers 1d seconds of mental stun.

see also

• Bodyhopping
• Channeling
  • Communication Only
• Death Possession
• Ghostly Possession Modifiers
• Permeation (combination for Transference)
• Possessions Under Control (Pyramid 3-83)
• Retrogression
• Spirit

Links

• Jericho from Teen Titans discussion]

References

• GURPS Powers pg 67-8