Shove

covered B372 in Basic Set: Campaigns, can be improved through Sumo

conceptual differences[]

a punch begins applying force at a point of non-contact and then applying force throughout a distance of non-contact before IMPACT with target

a shove first achieves contact and then applying force throughout a distance of prolonged contact before halting

The lack of impact (negligible momentum before contact is initiated) is why there is no basic damage.

The prolonged contact while applying force is presumably why there is double knockback.

Comparisons can be made to the Double Knockback and No Wounding modifiers for Crushing Attack.

Notable No Blunt Trauma is separate, perhaps creating precedent for allowing small damages on shoves based on 1/5 the thrust.

The two-handed variant of this has some similarities to Two-Handed Punch technique or using a two-handed grapple. These three technique variations do not involve the -4 for Dual Weapon Attack, but also do not use full damage per hand.

It's not entirely clear, how if DWA is done simultaneously, why both hands get full damage, yet full damage is not doing for these combined techniques. If the full body weight can be put into DWA despite simulatneity, why this is not done for 2Hgrapples/2Hshoves/2Hpunches.

Perhaps there should just be a rule where the -4 to hit is diminished when 2 hands target the exact same hit location on a target, and -4 for separate hit locaitons. Or gradually move up from -1 to -3 for hit locations which are similar (ie -1 for thigh/knee, -2 for thigh/shin, -3 for thigh/ankle, -4 for thigh/foot)

Martial Arts[]

Bracing[]

Brace from Teamwork allows better shoves.

Multiplying[]

A superior house rule to doubling the damage rolled might be to double the ST used to calculate the damage, to allow odd results and reduce 0x2=0 outcomes.

This could also be applied to critical hits, power blows, springing attacks, roll with blow, etc.

technical grappling[]

page 21 included a new rule when doing a shove during a Move and Attack which is easily overlooked since it isn't actually grappling related:

If you want to slam or shove someone and then keep moving,

you may do so!

For a shove, you may continue if you push

your opponent out of your path.

quotes[]

Kromm[]

2013 http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.php?p=1536358&postcount=13

I think I'd allow a fighter to help someone else break free after grappling that person's attacker. For instance, if Skinny Sven with ST 10 were grappled by Beefy Boris with ST 13 and +5 for using both hands, it would be 10 vs. 18 and Sven would be kind of hosed. However, if Sven's good pal Monstrous Muvunyi came along with ST 14, and grappled Boris, then on later turns I'd have no issues with Muvunyi rolling 14 vs. Boris' 13 to free Sven. Boris would not get +5 because he isn't grappling Muvunyi with two hands, and Muvunyi would not get +5 because Boris isn't trying to break free from him.

Douglas Cole[]

2016 http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.php?p=2043813&postcount=5

McAllister "I had never considered what would happen if you applied knockback to one party in a grapple! Does RAW say that the grapple automatically breaks?"

Cole: "In TG, the way you'd do it is roll to break free (roll damage) subtract the control points of the grapple, and apply the residue as the "damage" in a shove."

2016 http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=142668

re shoulder/hip shoves take the -2 armed, can buy off with perk or technique

Links[]

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.php?p=1649556&postcount=6 Douglas Cole suggested that if raw damage from a shove was more than CP it would dislodge the grapple.